Sin is messy. And I’ve been pondering a lot about the ideas of God’s grace vs our sin. After a VERY LONG train of thought, I came to this conclusion: Sin in the life of the believer is the result of him/her actively fighting against God’s work in them.
Thoughts?
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That sounds about right to me. Letting go of the things that you know you’re a miserable failure at is easy. But it’s much harder to let go of the things that we believe we’re in control of…ironically it’s also hard to let go of the things that we feel we have NO control of. But either way, it is a demonstration of resistance to GOD’s will.
More simply said. Sin is unbelief. When we sin we are rely, or take ultimate pleasure in something other than God. The root of sin is idolatry every single sin is traced back to it.
Right, but for the unbeliever sin is the result of living out the sinful nature in us. But for the believer, given that we are new creatures and God is able to keep us from stumbling (Jude 24), then our sin is more than just a passive act of nature but a aggressive act of fighting against His work in us.
sin is unbelief that what God says is true is true
sin is belief that LORD isnt LORD over everything
to really know sin go back to adam and eve in the garden
Gen 3:1 “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
Gen 3:4-5 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
its all pretty clear what God has instructed us to do
he has given us the best way to live and not following his Truth is what causes us to sin
Word Justin. There is a reason why the 1st Commandment is 1st. Great dialog guys.
Justin, good points. But I would add that a person CAN NOT follow the Truth apart from God’s power to do so, right? If ALL it took was God said it so you better do it, then there would be no need for Christ’s death or the sending of the Holy Spirit, correct? We need the FULL presence of the trinity to live this new life. God (the Father) and Jesus (the Word) is not God in His fullness. The Spirit is necessary. And while we may recognize God and His word as truth, unless we yield to God’s power active in us (the Holy Spirit) we can not live for Him.
Hmmmmmmmm…….That’s an interesting thought brother. I think some clarification is needed, though. When you say “sin in the life of a believer,” do you mean by that habitual sin, sin period, or something different altogether. The presence of sin in a believer’s life, generally, is part an parcel of being a human this side of eternity. The fact is (Romans 7), indwelling sin is a beast we must continue to fight, by the Spirit of God, until He retrieves us by death or His return. The key recognition that drives us to trust in Christ to begin with is the recognition that no matter how much I fight/don’t fight God’s work in me, I will ALWAYS need Christ. In other words, your statement seems to assume that if I don’t fight God’s work in me at all, I can achieve sinless perfection here in this life. Scripture is replete with passages that say otherwise. We are sinful even in our good deeds, so we are doomed apart from Christ. If, however, you define “fighting against God’s work in us” as being opposed to the Gospel, then we may be on to something, though not solving the presence of sin in the life of a believer. The Gospel in the life of a believer strengthens that believer by a proper motivation to do God’s will. Also, the Gospel produces a proper perspective when it comes to sin, namely repentant. Fighting against the Gospel will lead to either more sin, or more sinful piety and list keeping, but neither walking in OR out of step with the Gospel eradicates sin in our lives. The presence of sin in our lives will be done w/ finally when Christ returns, and not before.
@czarthoughts That passage concerning the Lord keeping us from stumbling doesn’t refer to sin, generally. It means He keeps us from FINALLY stumbling. It is a text that has been used to argue for sinless perfection but wrongly so.
I think we were typing at the same time Dejuan. LOL! I think knowing the gospel and accepting it is only part of it. We can know the gospel without ever yielding to God’s power to live it.
Agreed on that. And I’m not saying that we can perfectly achieve sinlessness this side of heaven. But could it be that sin in the life of the believer – especially habitual – is the result of fighting against the power that is at work in us? Its by that power we live what the Father has spoken so if we as new creations aren’t living that out, could it be because we actively fight against it?
True (czarthoughts). Though I’m not arguing for knowledge or lack of knowledge of the Gospel. I’m saying knowing the Gospel means you know you can’t reach sinless perfection. So the presence of sin in the life of a believer has nothing to do with how little or much you fight against God’s work in you. So if you mean presence of sin, then that’s a given period. If you mean habitual sin, then that’s another thread altogether.
Nah, I don’t think that to be the case. I don’t think we have Scriptural warrant to attribute the presence of sin in the life of a believer to us fighting against God’s work in us. What text do you have in mind?
Oh, I definitely mean habitual sin. The presence of sin (to quote N.E.R.D.) is “here and ain’t going nowhere! I am NOT making a case for the presence of sin being erradicated through the new birth. I would have to tear MANY pages of the NT out of my bible. I don’t even think you could come to that conclusion from the Message Bible. But I mean a life of continual sin for the believer.
Ok. Got it. Now, I think that a believer can’t live a life of habitual sin. I think that argues against 1 John 5.
So do you think the people who do aren’t believers at all or are they just on a super delayed santification process?
I think a person who “LIVES A LIFE OF HABITUAL SIN” has issue w/ the Bible relative to their conversion. The entire letter of 1John is “so we may know we have eternal life,” and what follows(among other things) is a test of sorts. We as believers have no freedom to judge a person’s salvation, but anyone living a life of habitual sin should be directed graciously to the Scriptures because there is something amiss w/ that person’s confession according to the Bible.
and re: the sanctification process being delayed
All sanctification is progressive, and is lifelong. So I don’t know what you mean by delayed. You mean like, the START of sanctification possibly is delayed?
What I mean is a person KNOWS 1 John and has known it for 20 years, yet they still continue in pornography, drunkeness and spousal abuse habitually. You mentioned that a believer can’t live in habitual sin.
How does one reconcile the lifestyles that happen in the life of these types of believers with “a believer can’t live a life of habitual sin?”
living a lifestyle of sin is different than a believer struggling. Here’s the 1million dollar question: what does that person feel about that sin? What does that person do in response to that sin? Let’s get to where the rubber meets the road. Is there a BATTLE? Does this individual HATE their sin?
There is also the thought that people sin….because they know they can be forgiven for those sins.
Just a thought.
Trisho
http://trishothinks.wordpress.com/